[2018-19] Landsknecht champion in Tourmanent, Red Avatar business

  • Long story short: I had a discussion with the Red Avatar about letting the Landsknechts to name a champion of the LKL, and apply this champion to join the Tournament of the Champions. The Red Avatar had a concern: if the LK champion wins the tournament and gets the prize (a dragon egg), what would happen to that egg? He is not sure that the dragon egg is in a safe place in the LKL... ;) I asked the Red Avatar that if we bring him an idea about what we plan to do with that egg, and he agrees, will he let us join the Tournament the next year (2019), and he said YES. After this we had a short conversation with the Obrist, but I was not sure that the first ideas (a big omelette, or an auction) would please the Red Avatar, also it would be a silly idea to stand in front of him and tell these... So I had an idea that if we won, we will give the dragon egg to the Temple of the Dragons to find a good place for it. Obrist agreed with it. This was near the end of the DF'18, so I had no chance to talk the Red Avatar again, but next year this could be an interesting project - if You find this idea worthy.
    (If you are interested, I can tell the backstory of this tournament idea, but that is strongly character related, and it is probably offtopic in this forum.)

  • I'd put it up for auction. The other camps can then try to buy it from us. If nobody is interested, we could still give it to the temple..
    I don't know about you, but my character is more into getting money than into being nice to dragons.. they are great creatures you have to respect, but - what is in for me if I'd put the egg to the temple?



    Does that mean that we'd have an intern championship to decide who's going to be the LKL Champion? (Sounds absolutely great to me)

  • The problem with the auction is that while indeed we would get money from it, I see no way that the Red avatar would allow it.
    Basically it would mean one camp had two contestant.
    So leaving it at the temple is the the safe bet that the avatar would approve and we could be in the championship.


    And we can make money from it too. Either letting the contestant be bribed or just simply winning it and making it into a PR stunt that we can beat the camps even in a one on one fight so they should REALLY hire us.

    "Ever noticed when you see two groups who really hate each other, chances are good that they are wearing different kind of hats. Keep an eye on that, might be important"

  • I'm not that firm with all that Dragon's background, but isn't the red School of magic in the Dragonlands something with necromancy? Just asking for a friend.


    I think selling it seems the most logic way on the first thought, but it is kind of lame exchanging something like this for boring coins. But what could it be, we desire from a Dragon or an Avatar or a camp?
    I think of something creating play or reputation? Why not something like a visit from an Avatar to the camp, an opportunity to present us to those really holding power. We could present our camp and show a Drill and afterwards exchange gifts? Or we get hired for parading with the Avatar through Aldradach and before his enemys. So we can get something the Red likes: honour and something we like: money. And we would in case get some opportunitie to show the camp.


  • I'm not that firm with all that Dragon's background, but isn't the red School of magic in the Dragonlands something with necromancy? Just asking for a friend.


    I think selling it seems the most logic way on the first thought, but it is kind of lame exchanging something like this for boring coins. But what could it be, we desire from a Dragon or an Avatar or a camp?
    I think of something creating play or reputation? Why not something like a visit from an Avatar to the camp, an opportunity to present us to those really holding power. We could present our camp and show a Drill and afterwards exchange gifts? Or we get hired for parading with the Avatar through Aldradach and before his enemys. So we can get something the Red likes: honour and something we like: money. And we would in case get some opportunitie to show the camp.


    The Red School of the "Guild of Dragons" (before; Guilde of Magic) is the way of necromancers, yes. There are some options for dead charakters, to act with a Red-School-Magician.


    First problem - we don't have a possibility for transport - Dragon Eggs are only movable in a special box, and only the Dragon-Camps (members of the competition own one. So we've first the problem of transport. Then, every camp can take an egg if they can get it - don't forget, we've not hundred of soldiers to defend it.


    I think, Schwannek's ideas are a good base: We try to make a deal AND gain reputation. What's about: When we win, we declare the Egg to a gift for a Dragon Camp. the price is a blessing for our presence at the Drachenfest from the avatar of this camp.


    (An we're, at this moment, coincidentally, prepared to escort it to a camp (a normal contract). ;-) )


    I suggest to give it to the Red - it's the nearest Dragon to our camp ...?

  • The problem is still that the red avatar has to okay the whole thing and he won't do it unless he also likes the idea. And he doesn't like the idea of we simply selling the egg and stuff like that. I would wager that simply giving it to someone we just defeated would make him a little grumpy.


    Giving it to the Temple is a safe bet, that probably would have no opposition from the Red, and we can still advertise ourselves in the meantime.


    Giving it to the weakest camp could be more beneficial to us (maybe we could get some good PR with the Gold avatar this way) but I'm very unsure if the Red would be okay with this, probably depends on how we present it to him

    "Ever noticed when you see two groups who really hate each other, chances are good that they are wearing different kind of hats. Keep an eye on that, might be important"

  • Why? We as a camp have absolutly no use for an egg beside selling it one way or another. We can't keep it, we can't transport it, we can't use it in any other way. If he's not able to see this than it's of no use to discus any further.


    So all we can do is to deside woh should get it in our opinin. And thats is an oportunity to create game. As I've said, just selling it for coins is the most boring way. Gifting it to someone, to keep the war going, can't be something the Red is against. Creed is something, his blue broher can deal with, you mentioned the golden Avatar and we might find explanations why the others could approve.

  • Thinking about the ideas:


    1. Donating to the Temple.
    This case I'm almost sure that Aldradach became a more interesting place, because all Color camps need that egg. Heavy City Guard presence around the Temple (or, some competent forces paid for it, like LK :) ), less presence on other places. This is a possibility to bring more subtle military actions to the city, from the Camps. Sneak-ins, ninjas, magic attacks against the Temple, pissing off all dragons, etc. I don't think that donating the temple causes peace. But, this is the safest thing in my opinion for us, it can please the Red (or at least I can imagine that he agrees), and also the Gold because of the balance. Also, the egg is way too white, boring, could use some painting; we should keeping it unharmed, yes, but not untouched by skillful artists ;)


    2. Giving to the weakest Camp.
    This is a lovely idea too, because one of the camps must declare that they are the weakest, and convince the others (or some judge, like an Avatar), this is an interesting licit / coming out. But I'm afraid that this will be interesting only for a closed circle of people, and we (and 99% of Df people) will have no info or other exciting outcome from it, causes no extra in-character gameplay. I'm not sure that it will please the Red, because supporting the weakest is probably not his domain (and not sure he will agree this deal), but sure will please the Gold because of balance.


    3. Sell it / licit / auction etc.
    More money = more inertia and more fun, yes :) But, I don't think Red would accept this as he is not a merchant type.


    4. Creating a "king of the hill" battle for it (new idea)
    Egg is on the center of the battlefield, all interested camps can assemble a hit squad with equal headcounts, and let them fight for it. This creates more game, but we as LK are out of this fun, unfortunately. But Red loves war, so I can imagine that he agrees this.


    Yes, it would be exciting to have an intern LK champion selection tournament!


    About carrying the egg: we can ask the Red that if he agrees, lend us an egg-bearer to carry it to the designated area.

  • Runa:
    "I don't know about you, but my character is more into getting money than into being nice to dragons.. they are great creatures you have to respect, but - what is in for me if I'd put the egg to the temple?"
    Lambert, my character had a serious break point in his life, and decided to turn more towards music and nice ladies and silvers than die for three coppers a day. He went to the Temple of the Dragons to learn a lot about their domains, nature, light and dark sides, and decided that no dragon deserves to die for it. All of them has some interesting aspects that resonates with Lambert: ha can be violent, loves life, sometimes helps out poor friends / rotmeisters ;), loves music, embraced change to citizen from soldier etc., but still has nothing to do with magic, and dark sides of the dragons.
    As I wrote in a comment up there, donating the Temple with the egg can cause interesting actions, and not sure that it will end peacefully. And I hope that the outcome will piss off some dragons :)


  • Why? We as a camp have absolutly no use for an egg beside selling it one way or another. We can't keep it, we can't transport it, we can't use it in any other way. If he's not able to see this than it's of no use to discus any further.


    I'm pretty sure he can see that, but he is an avatar after all with very firm ideological beliefs. It's our task to make an argument that he likes. And he already stated simply selling it is not compelling him.
    So the thing is we probably can sell it BUT we have to present it in a way that is okay with the Red. Simply just saying that is an effortless attempt and also would generate little play opportunities.
    That's why we need some creative solution.

    "Ever noticed when you see two groups who really hate each other, chances are good that they are wearing different kind of hats. Keep an eye on that, might be important"

  • I think it would be great if we had a champion at that tournament as it could be quite fun.


    to all the ideas.
    I like the give it to the weakest camp or the camp with the fewest eggs the most. To make it a bit more open we could say that we will escort the egg and want to give it personally to the avatar. That could create quite a show.


    Sell it / licit / auction etc.
    This makes ingame a lot of sense but it will be difficult to convince the red avatar. Offgame it doesn't make that much sense to me. It will create not that much play as probably only a few people from each camp will come for the auction. Further more it takes up a lot of daytime that we normally need to fight or get contracts. Lat but not least we get only some copper for it. Copper is nice but in won't be that much and it will be low in relations to what prices are for cookies and pictures after we split it up.



    King of the hill
    Sounds interesting but I'm not really a fan of wining a tournament to host an other tournament with the same price.


    Donating to the Temple
    If we do that then we should designate it to something. Not that we actually will get that just so we don't give it away for free.

  • Generally, Klara likes money, but as others said, it won't be that much fun to sell the egg. So we need something that gives us reputation.


    Id' love to see, how we select a champion in our camp, this would give us many possibilities and play and fun to the whole camp.


    I also don't think "King of the hill" makes sense, as it's the same as the championship itself. We also shouldn't give it to the camp who hires us for the final battle, as then they would most likely win, which would also be a bit boring. So it would be more interesting for everyone to give it to the camp with least eggs.


    What are the rules for the dragon temple? Could anyone get in there and get the egg? Sounds fair, but not specially fun.


    I like the idea, that also the orcs have a chance. But how combine this with reputation for us?

  • The Question with the orcs (or dwarves?) is, how they could use/move an egg. I Think there are quite some rules concerning the dragon eggs. Same problem with us keeping it, don't know if this is possible.
    ANd yes the Red Avatar is quite firm with his belives, but he is also an SL and I trust he can see a chnace of play for many. So if we have decided for what we think is the most fun to us and others, we can think of a way, presenting it a way he could accept.


    But just gifting it to someone is quite lame, We need to get something back. But there have been some ideas around. Maybe there are some more. It may depend on whom to offer the egg. It might be a desicion by the Orbist? Or the Champion?

  • Some of the facts, that apply in this case:


    1.) The Red Avatar hosts the champions tournament, its a competition in his name and he is in the jury. He is donating the price, the dragon egg, I assume (but... I'm not quite sure about this). Therefore its important to gain his interest, so we have a chance to attend the tournament.


    2.) We cannot move a Dragonegg, in no case. If someone receives a Dragonegg, outside from a camp, it doesn't disappears. But, you need a Dragonark to move this thing, and you can only have a Dragonark, when you build a ritual place. Dragonarks cannot be borrowed, stolen or whatever. The rules about Dragoneggs are quite extensive, here they are in full length: http://www.drachenfest-larp.in…Siegbedingungen_de_en.pdf (the english part is heavily shortened)


    3.) The temple donates every day (including wednesday) a Dragonegg to the camp, which cares the most about their shrine. If we give the Dragonegg to the temple, the temple can double it's own reward on saturday. We should talk with someone from the temple, if this is a valid possibility.
    Source: http://www.drachenfest.info/fo…056.msg1374287#msg1374287


    From my perspective we don't have many options to handle a Dragonegg. It's just about donating to another camp or, maybe, donating to the temple.
    I would prefer the temple solution, furthermore I like the the idea, to have a own Landsknecht shrine in the temple. Bauprojekt? :)



    This whole stuff can give us a stronger connection to the whole Drachenfest idea itself, what I would welcome. Besides, it gives us a reason to hold a tournament in our camp, to determine our champion (even if I don't like the term in its use at the DF). Sounds fun. :)

  • I do like the Idea a lot, the problem is that if they let us join the tournament, we will create a precedent (Präzedenzfall), so that other Non-Dragon camps like the dwarfs or the Karawanserey could say "Hey, if they're allowed to join, why aren't we?"..
    But like we say in germany "asking is free" :D I just think that, even if the red avatar (or the SL behind him) is in favour of us joining Ingame, he or others might not out of game.